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Dec 17, 202111 min read

Ghislaine Maxwell Trial

Updated: Dec 30, 2021

DEC 17TH Trial Notes


Dec 17th Trial Notes


OK - it's US v. #GhislaineMaxwell trial Day 12, defense arguing to keep their case open until Monday for a final, 81-year old witness. Inner City Press is reporting on the case and will live tweet, thread below


Judge Nathan: I'm letting in the documents about residence versus ownership. If I weren't, you might have a point. Is this deposition transcript new to you? Maxwell's lawyer: She was deposed in a slip and fall case. Judge Nathan: You'll provide the transcript.


Judge Nathan: I have a rule, you have your next witness or you rest. If otherwise the case closes today, it closes today. [Couldn't Maxwell's lawyers just do super-long direct examination? And what about the 3 day hiatus?]


Maxwell's lawyer: Also if the Marshals can produce another witness we've subpoenaed... The other witness, from the UK, if they will stipulate to it, there'd be no review. Assistant US Attorney: The subpoenaed witness Kelly, we have no idea what she'd say. No stip


Maxwell's lawyer Menninger: I understand your Honor wants to run this quickly, but it's a lot of work. Judge Nathan (laughs) I understand that, Ms. Menninger. Give me a written application and a proposed order in half an hour.


Judge Nathan: There are also some 40 prior inconsistent statements. My colleague Judge Kaplan has helpfully set forth the standard. [He's the judge with Giuffre v. Prince Andrew before him, which Inner City Press is also reporting on]


Judge Nathan: Annie said she didn't remember a chef being there [on the Zorro ranch] but that it made sense to her, so not inconsistency. And the amount of horseback riding is a collateral issue.


Maxwell's lawyer: I think impeachment is for the truth [of the matter asserted] Judge Nathan: That's way too metaphysical for me to handle right now. (Laughs).


Maxwell's lawyer: We'll have a law enforcement witness and we'd like to ask leading questions. Judge Nathan: Truth comes out on direct. Start with that. Maxwell's lawyer: I want to get to the absence of evidence, the lack of GPS given the age of the allegations.


Maxwell's lawyer Everdell: I wanted to ask the agent, that the complaint was first on one time frame then more recent, with Carolyn. I think that's relevant. AUSA: The court has already ruled on this - the path of the investigation. Let's them raise it in closing


Judge Nathan: Who's the first [defense] witness today? Maxwell's lawyer: First Special Agent Jason Richards. Then we would have had Agent Young. Then [drumroll] Eva Dubin


#breaking: In US v. #GhislaineMaxwell, defense is calling as a witness Eva Dubin, frmr Epstein girlfriend who later married a(nother) hedge funder. She was asked to come at 11 am but seems it'll be before. Inner City Press is live tweeting


Well, Eva *is* a defense witness, testifying for and in favor of GhislaineMaxwell (whose lawyers did not preview her as a hostile witness).

Replying to @innercitypress

Oh man, Eva & her husband Glenn (fellow MEGA group billionaire along side Wexner) should be on trial, not on the stand as witnesses.


OK - jury is finally called in at 10:30 am, an hour late All rise! Witness is Agent Jason Richards. Maxwell's Pagliuca: Where are you based? Richards: Miami. Before, Palm Beach. Pagliuca: Let's turn to 2006. Richards: I was in Unit PV-2. We investigated Epstein.


Pagliuca: Did you interview Carolyn - don't say her last name? Agent Richards: I did. Pagluca: Did you recall Carolyn saying she obtained Epstein's number from a phone book and that Epstein returned her call? Richards: If that's what's in the 302 report.


Pagliuca: No further questions. Cross. AUSA: Do you show your 302s to those you speak to? Richards: No. Judge Nathan: Defense may call it's next witness. Maxwell's lawyer: We call Agent Amanda Young.


Maxwell's lawyer: Agent Young, was your partner Detective Burns? Young: Yes. We both check the 302. Maxwell's lawyer: You just heard Ms. Comey's questions to Agent Richards. 302s are not transcripts, right? Young: They are not.


Maxwell's lawyer: You interviewed Annie Farmer. About the boots, right? Young: Yes. The boots were obtained by law enforcement this year. I don't remember which month.


Maxwell's lawyer: Read this. Young: "In the beginning, Jane would be with her mother and brothers at the Epstein house." Maxwell's lawyer (Menninger) - I want to turn to page 7. You wrote, Jane did not recall specific abuse that may have occurred in New Mexico


Maxwell's lawyer: Just to emphasize, the boots were discussed recently? Young: Yes. Cross. AUSA: What did you do before? Young; I interviewed children about child abuse.


[Now there is a sidebar. Agent Amanda Young sits in the plexi-glass witness box, in dark blue shirt, black jacket. They're back] Judge Nathan: Jurors will disregard the statement about Agent Young's previous job interviewing children.


AUSA: Did Jane need more than one meeting to say what happened? Maxwell's lawyer: Objection! Beyond the scope! AUSA: I'll try another way. Who was there for the inverviews? Maxwell's lawyer: Objection! Beyond the scope - I didn't ask about this.


Redirect: Maxwell's Menninger: You used these notes with the grand jury, right? Young: Some of them. Maxwell's Menninger: Did you show her the 302s? Young. No. It's not ethical. It's not appropriate.


Maxwell's Menninger: You don't record them? Young: Only those in custody. Not victim / witnesses. Maxwell's Menninger: Are you familiar with the DOJ Obtaining Evidence protocols? AUSA: Objection. Judge Nathan: Overruled. Menninger: I have a document, I can show it


[And now, yet another sidebar. and now - the next witness: Eva Dubin] Witness: I am Eva Andersson. I also go by Eva Andersson-Dubin. I live in NYC. I am 60. Maxwell's lawyer: You are married to Glenn Dubin? Eva: Yes. 28 years. We have 3 children: 27, 25 & 20


Maxwell's lawyer: Gender? Eva: Female, male, female. Maxwell's lawyer: What does Mr. Dubin do for employment? Eva: He is self-employed. I was previously employed as a medical doctor.


Eva: I went to medical school in Stockholm, then UCLA. Then Lenox Hill Hospital in NYC. Maxwell's lawyer: Did you know Mr. Epstein? Eva: We dated off and on from 1983 until 1991.


[Note: it's reported that Virginia Robert Giuffre gave Eva a non-sexual massage then after Eva fell asleep, had intercourse with Glenn. Cross-examination? #MaximumMaxwell


Maxwell's lawyer: Did you ever witness any sexual contact between Mr Epstein and -- AUSA Moe: Objection! [Another sidebar]


Maxwell's lawyer: Let me show you some photographs under seal. Is one person Mr. Epstein and the other one of your children? Eva: Yes it's the 20. I've never seen this picture before.


Maxwell's lawyer: Let me ask you about flight records. [These remain largely redacted and Inner City Press' challenge still not docketed - apparently under the theory that if it's denied, it's not a judicial document


Judge Nathan: I'll give the jurors their mid-morning break. Jurors leave, and witness steps out. Judge Nathan: If there's something inaccurate in the media writ-large, like a blog post...


Judge Nathan: I sustain the government's objection [to asking about published flight logs] under 401 and 403. Now we'll take our break. Soon: podcast and stories on http://InnerCityPress.com &



Podcast of Dec 17-2: Eva Dubin, Epstein girlfriend 1983-91, on direct, flight logs redacted



Here's fast podcast during the break


Jury is back. Maxwell's lawyer: Let's look at GX662r, the redacted flight logs of Dave Roberts. Can you see it Doctor Dubin? Judge Nathan: Can we make sure it is redacted? If so it may be published


On the screen, flight with "JE, Eva Andersson" and Ms. Francis Jardine. Maxwell's lawyer: Do you remember Francis Jardine? Eva: I remember Francis, I didn't know her last name. Maxwell's lawyer: you knew Mr. Epstein was dating her? Eva: Yes.


Maxwell's lawyer: I'll show you sealed exhibit GX12... and now, only for the witness and court, unredacted Exhibit 662. [Nothing shown on screen] Eva: I recognize Sophie Biddle, a massage therapist... And I see my husband's name.


Maxwell's lawyer: Without saying the name that we are not saying, do you see it on the list? Eva: Yes. Maxwell's lawyer: Have you ever been in a group sexual encounter with Jane? Eva: I have not. Maxwell's lawyer: That's all I have. Judge Nathan: Ms. Moe.


Cross. AUSA Moe: Are you the only Eva in the whole wide world? Maxwell's lawyer: Objection on relevance. Judge Nathan: Overruled. AUSA Moe: Did you ever discuss with Mr. Epstein his relationship with Ms Maxwell? Maxwell's lawyer: Hearsay. Judge Nathan: Sustained.


AUSA Moe: With respect, do you have issues with your memory? Eva: I can't remember things from last month. Maxwell's lawyer: This does not need to be discussed. AUSA Moe: Nothing further. No redirect. Judge Nathan: Defense may call its next witness.


It's Michelle Healy. She says: I'm 47, live in Dallas, as a housewife. My husband is an architect. My system Shannon lives in Albuqueque. I grew up on Long Island. NY from 1974 to 1999. Menninger: Where did you work in 1996? Healy: J. Epstein and company.


Healy: I went to Zorro ranch, my sister was working there. Maxwell's lawyer: Were you ever involved in any group sexualized massages with Jane? Healy: Absolutely not.


Cross. AUSA Comey: Are you the only Michelle in the world? Michelle Healy: I hope not. AUSA: Never flew on Epstein's plane? Healy: No. AUSA: Nothing further. Lunch break - story http://innercitypress.com/sdnytrial47maxwellicp121721.html… coming on @SubstackInc & then... live stream? Watch this feed.


#CourtCastCast: In #GhislaineMaxwell Trial Defense Calls Epstein's Ex-Girlfriend Eva Dubin Who Denies Sex With Jane But Says Cannot Remember Much - Inner City Press story: http://innercitypress.com/sdnytrial47maxwellicp121721.html…

with podcast link



Maxwell's lawyer pushing to have Nag's Head Pub witness testify on Monday.


Judge Nathan: I always say, I have so many bridges to cross. I cross the bridge that is in front of me. Maxwell's lawyer: We want to put in property records about Stanhope Mews, too. They are self-authenticating.


Judge Nathan: What do we have after lunch? Maxwell's lawyer: We'll try to work out the other stips. Judge Nathan: So, no more defense witnesses? I'm going to spend my remaining lunch hour reviewing Kelly. AUSA: If not Monday morning, it's too late.


Still waiting for return of #MaxwellTrial jury, now 2:25 pm. Here was Inner City Press' lunch break Foley Square live stream: https://twitter.com/innercitypress/status/1471912547494289417


The proceeding begins with not-guilty pleas to superseding indictment, now by (former US State Department employee) Federico Klein, count 34, obstruction of a civil proceeding, count 51, violence with a deadly building in a restricted building. Pleads: Not guilty


In the wider case, Judge McFadden: Defendant claims a fire cracker is not a deadly weapon. I deny the motion to dismiss. Also before me is Morss' motion for release. The government has submitted photos & evidence of what happened on Jan 6. Detention is warranted.


Jury *still* not back, 2:42 pm. Judge Nathan said she intends to ask #GhislaineMaxwell whether she intends to testify. Now Maxwell is talking at length with her lawyer Bobbi Sternheim and others.


Note: the Klein charge, count 51, is violence in a restricted building with a deadly *weapon* The overall case will meet again on Feb 4, 2 pm. Any plea offer must be accepted or rejected in writing.


There was talk of a prosecution expert in rebuttal but that seems to have been let go. The only remains issues before closing arguments: 1) asking Maxwell if she'll testify. 2) maybe subpoena-ed witness Kelly or 3) pub-man from UK. 4) charging conference...

Replying to @innercitypress

Did prosecution state if it is doing rebuttal in Maxwell? Thanks.



Judge Nathan has returned, and AUSA Comey says, we have reached stipulations and we can wrap up the case today. Judge Nathan: How long to read the stips? AUSA Comey: 10 to 15 minutes. Menninger: We ask you to take a notice of a 1996 case before 2d Cir Judge Chen


Judge Nathan: You've given Judge Chen an early promotion (laughs). Menninger: The US leased a building to Epstein [had been Iran's consultate?] Inner City Press going to look up the case...



Judge Nathan: I'm sustaining the objection, given the posture of that case at the time [it was on summary judgment] AUSA: In the old deposition of Epstein, the government's goal wasn't what it is here, to determine where he was living, there or on 9 East 71st St


Maxwell's lawyer: Jane says Epstein was living in 9 East 71st on 1994. But this case says different. Judge Nathan: It's not coming in. And I heard, no arrest warrant for Kelly> Maxwell's lawyer: No need to arrest Kelly "Bolino" (sp) AUSA: No government rebuttal case


Now: allocution. Judge Nathan: Ms. Maxwell, please rise. The decision to testify or not is your decision. Do you understand? Maxwell: Your Honor, the government had not proved its case beyond a reasonable doubt. So there is no need for me to testify.


#breaking: #GhislaineMaxwell just said that she will NOT testify in the case against her. She said: Your Honor the government had not proved its case beyond a reasonable doubt. So there is no need for me to testify. Inner City Press thread:

Still waiting for return of #MaxwellTrial jury, now 2:25 pm. Here was Inner City Press' lunch break Foley Square live stream: https://twitter.com/innercitypress/status/1471912547494289417



No - they will read into the record 15 minutes of stipulations. They will do a charging conference - Saturday : ( to decide on how to charge the jury. Monday, closing arguments and the charge. THEN the jury get the case, to deliberate

Replying to @innercitypress

Is the case with the jury now?


Podcast of Dec 17-3: #GhislaineMaxwell says no need to testify. So endgame- closings Monday

Now stipulations being read into the record including... Annie Farmer's boots were seized by the FBI on June 29, 2021. Also, when the Lion King opened. and that Dominique Hyppotite would testify that the Palm Beach school maintains records (Roberts)


More stipulations: "It is agreed that the birthday of Mike Wallace is May 9, 2018." (Jane cited 80th birthday party Now London addresses and dates. [Note: Judge Nathan indicated when this is done, she'll tell jurors to come in Monday 9 am, to 5:30 or 6.


US says its closing will be 2-3 hours, rebuttal 45 minutes. Maxwell's closing will not be longer, they say. Then charge. Judge Nathan: I'll given them a shortened lunch break too, to get it all in on Monday. Then deliberation Tuesday, Wednesday & more if necessary


Maxwell's lawyer: At this time the defense rests. AUSA: The US has no further case. Judge Nathan: Jurors, you'll hear closing arguments then I'll instruct you on the law and you'll begin deliberations. Monday, I ask we start 9 am. And it's possible he'll go to 6



Judge Nathan: Continue following my instructions. No communications with each other any anyone else about the case. Keep an open mind until summations and my instructions. Be cautious out there. I want to see everyone back here Monday at 9. All rise!


Jury leaves. Judge Nathan: I'll get your a draft of the charge by 6 pm. And we'll meet here at 9 am for the charging conference. AUSA: Who should be reach out to about logistics? Judge Nathan: We'll have some staff here over the weekend for the charging conference.


Judge Nathan: See you tomorrow morning [Saturday]. Adjourned. Stories soon on http://InnerCityPress.com


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