Ghislaine Maxwell Trial Day 4
Updated: Jan 12, 2022
Dec 2nd
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Trial Notes by Inner City Press
Vlog: Before US v. #GhislaineMaxwell Day 4, stand up outside 40 Foley Square before going in. While some say the ability to go in means there's no reduction in access, that ignores call-in lines in place in DDC & even in this case until just before trial / Omicron
OK - it's US v. #GhislaineMaxwell, Day 4. New witness: Paul Kane of NYC's Professional Children's School. Inner City Press is reporting on the trial story
AUSA: Look at Government Exhibit 721. Do you recognize it? Kane: An enrollment application for a student. AUSA: Don't say the name. Is it an accurate copy? Kane: Yes. Maxwell's lawyer: Objection - hearsay! AUSA: It's a business record. Judge Nathan: Overruled.
Maxwell's lawyer: Can I question the witness? Judge Nathan: Go ahead. Maxwell's lawyer: The Professional Children's School doesn't verify the accuracy of the info on the form, does it? Kane: I think they do. Maxwell's lawyer: All of it? Kane: That, I don't know.
Maxwell's lawyer: So the info-- AUSA: Your Honor, may I? Judge Nathan: You may. AUSA: What happens to info coming in? Kane: Contact the family by phone, then invite them to tour the school and have a conversation. AUSA: Does the School rely on the form? Kane: Yes.
After sidebar, document is in] AUSA: What grade was the person applying for? Kane: 12th. Due to "move to New York." AUSA: Who's listed as person of financial responsibility? Kane: Mister Jeffrey Epstein. AUSA: Thanks. No further questions.
Maxwell's lawyer: You have no idea if Mr. Epstein actually paid. Kane: I do not. Maxwell's lawyer: And for the mother, does it say unemployed? Kane: It says self-employed. As an interior decorator.
Maxwell's lawyer: And who is the listed agent? AUSA: Objection! Judge Nathan: Just make the jurors look at it. Maxwell's lawyer: Look the name in the corner. And the name of the prior principal. You don't have to say them for the record. No further questions.
Judge Nathan: Thank you Mr Kane. Next US witness. It's Doctor Lisa Rocchio. "I have a Masters and PhD from U of Rhode Island."
Side note
Lawyers are allowed to make objections. But they rarely object to and try to keep out a business record, which Team Maxwell just did. You get what you pay for, I guess
Replying to @innercitypress
How can they just jump in like that? Is that normal?
Because none of the names are being said and the exhibits are sealed, it is unclear. Maxwell's lawyers wanted to jurors to note who the student's professional agent was, & for some reason name of the principal at former school. Subject to connection, as they say
Replying to @innercitypress
I’m not following. What is the agent in a school application form? Was this an arts school - so is it agent as in professional agent getting her jobs?And by principal they mean school principal? Or principal in a business sense?
OK after long presentation of credentials, Rocchio is in as an expert. AUSA: Did you interview anyone in this case? Rocchio: No. AUSA: Does your pay depend on outcome of the trial? Rocchio: No. AUSA: What is grooming? Rocchio: Strategies to get children into sex
Rocchio: I've seen grooming in the Boy Scouts through a special camping trip. Or jewelry, anything to make the children feel they are appreciated. [During the Daubert hearing, before trial, Maxwell's lawyer asked, does this mean that grandparents are grooming?
AUSA: How common is it for a child to be repeatedly abused by the same perp? Rocchio: Very common. It's by people close to the child. AUSA: What is a grooming environment? Rocchio: The perp develops trust with people around the child, for example with the parents
Side note
Yeah, Inner City Press wrote that Epstein-Hogging-in-MCC story, based on complaints to it from other inmates
Replying to @innercitypress
$6.6 million set aside for her legal costs. Offered $28 million bail. Rejected numerous times. Has done 500 days in jail. Epstein did just over 30 mostly hung out in attorney room all day eating all the vending machine snacks.
AUSA: Are victims of child sexual abuse likely to report it to the police? Rocchio: No. AUSA: How do they talk about it? Maxwell's lawyer: Objection - no foundation. Judge Nathan: I'll sustain. Can you re-phrase?
AUSA: What is the long term impact? Rocchio: They are at higher risk for adverse outcomes. AUSA: Nothing further. Judge Nathan: Let's take our break. [Note, no mention of snacks. Coming soon - podcast and maybe story if there's time on
side note
#CourtCaseCast: In #GhislaineMaxwell Trial, US's Grooming Expert Rocchio Sets Stage After Professional Children's School Form Shows Epstein Paying; Agent noted to jurors- story: http://innercitypress.com/sdnytrial32maxwellicp120221.html
@SubstackInc with vlog & podcast links
Remember there are (at least) three more survivor / witnesses, each of which may have supporting or corroborating other witnesses...
Replying to @innercitypress
I'm trying to figure out how 6 weeks is the trial time. I have never seen a case fly so fast through witnesses.
Maxwell's lawyer: Alcohol would harm recall too, yes? AUSA: Objection. Judge Nathan: Sustained. Maxwell's lawyer: Are you familiar with confabulation? AUSA: Objection! Judge: Overruled. Maxwell's lawyer: It's filling in the gaps. AUSA: Objection. Judge: Sustained.
Maxwell's lawyer: My grandfather liked to take me to the Bronx Zoo. Was that grooming? [Yes, he went there.]
Next US witness is Juan Patricio Alessi. AUSA: Where do you come from? Alessi: Quito, Ecuador. AUSA: When did you move to Florida? Alessi: Early 1984. I worked for a wealthy family in Palm Beach, I was a maintenance guy. Then I worked for Mister Jeffrey Epstein
AUSA: How did you meet Epstein? Alessi: I was working on Mister Wexner's mother's house. [!] AUSA: Who is in this photo? Alessi: Mr. Jeffrey Epstein.
AUSA: When Mr. Epstein was in Palm Beach, where did you sleep? Alessi: I had a room there. AUSA: Who else worked there? Alessi: I brought my wife to help me. And other girls.
side note
Not only does UN Sec-Gen @AntonioGuterres
cover up the rapes of children in DR Congo and Haiti by UN "peacekeepers"- now he's closing the UN Int'l School in Queens. He was protested, and @UN_Spokesperson
just refused to answer on it. Nothing on Maxwell / Terramar.
This is @UN_Spokesperson@StephDujarric. This morning Inner City Press emailed him Qs including "On Ghislaine Maxwell on whose Terramar Foundation board SG Guterres' Partnership rep Amir Dossal was 1 of only 5 people, what is SG Guterres' explanation? story later
https://twitter.com/innercitypress/status/1466458330696761349?s=20
AUSA: How did things changed after Ms. Maxwell got involved? Alessi: Things were less cordial. Less conversation. I was not allowed to see Mr. Epstein anymore, unless he asked me question. Ms. Maxwell said, Don't look at his eyes, "look at another part of him."
And with that, and a blue print of the house on the screens, Judge Nathan says: The jurors' lunch has arrived. Let's break. [Programming note: thinking break was at 1, will be on Las Vegas radio at 1:10. But will find a way to resume thread when Alessi continues
/Programming note: radio interview done and we are back: Alessi is describing Epstein's Palm Beach home in great detail. Presumably it will become relevant in the testimony of Survivor / Witnesses 2, 3 and 4. AUSA: Pull up Gov Exhibit 297. Mr. Alessi what is this?
Alessi: The 2d floor. That is toward Mr. Epstein's bedroom. There was a huge bathroom. AUSA: And what's that other bathroom? Alessi: That's Ms. Maxwell's bathroom. AUSA: But they both came off the master bedroom? Alessi. Yes.
AUSA: Where did Ms. Maxwell sleep in the Palm Beach house? Maxwell's lawyer: Objection! But it's allowed. Alessi: She slept in Mr. Epstein's bedroom.
AUSA: How many times did you see females by Mr. Epstein's pool? Alessi: 100s. AUSA: How often were they topless? Alessi: 75% of the time.
side note
There were protesters - too infrequent - headed to the UN today about UNSG
hurting children by closing their Queens school. Sadly parents & supporters of children in Haiti and DRC raped by UN peacekeepers, covered up by Guterres, have no access
Replying to @innercitypress
And the guy outside the UN today causing a situation = related??
https://twitter.com/innercitypress/status/1466482651645292547?s=20
AUSA: How about Little St. James? Alessi: I was on a cruise with my wife to St. Thomas. They picked us up & showed us Little St. James. It was huge. AUSA: Did you visit any Ms Maxwell property? Alessi: Her townhome in London. She invited us. It had a red front door
side note
Antonio Guterres lives for free in a mansion 15 blocks from the UN; he pays no taxes but demands NYPD and other NYC services. He and the UN do not comply with NY and USA law, not least thumbing their noses at the 1st Amendment.
replying to
#Guterrez has got to go along with the UN building! twitter.com/innercitypress…
AUSA: What conversations did you have with Ms. Maxwell about this booklet? Alessi: I told her I could not do this checklist, with all my other work. AUSA: Show them Gov Exhibit 606.
AUSA: How long is this book? Alessi: 58 pages. AUSA: What is it? Alessi: List of what were supposed to do to maintain the house.
Now Maxwell's lawyer will question Alessi about the book of instructions. Maxwell's lawyer: When you left, you didn't have this in your possession did you? Alessi: No I did not. Maxwell's lawyer: But this book was created after you left, at least by the date on it.
Maxwell's lawyer: We object to 606. AUSA: He identified pages. Judge Nathan: I'm overruling the objection. 606 is admitted. AUSA: We you recognize the address at the bottom? ALessi: Mr. Epstein's residence.
AUSA: What does this instruction saw? Alessi: "Do not discuss your personal problems with guests." AUSA: And this one? Alessi: "Respect their privacy."
side notes
#Breaking: The black books of Epstein and #GhislaineMaxwell have just been brought up by the US, questioning Epstein's maintenance man Juan Alessi. Might take a while, but it's on. #UNinTheBook#BlueBook Inner City Press is live tweeting:
AUSA: There's a reference to the JE and the GM telephone directories. What were they? Alessi: Books with hundreds and hundreds of names. Directions and addreses.
Alessi: They were 2 inches thick. Full of names. AUSA [for some reason turning away from the 2 black books, at least for now] Let's turn to page 23, about Ms. Maxwell's desk. What does it say? Alessi: Please the directory to the right of the phone.
Assistant US Attorney: What is this? Alessi: Instructions for serving breakfast. Sometimes at 5 am. AUSA: Who else worked there? Alessi: Chefs. My wife. Ms Maxwell's assistant. Then Sarah Kellen.
Alessi: Two females seemed to be underage. AUSA: Don't say their names. Jurors, look at the binders under your chairs. GX 12. Alessi: Can I have a cup of water? Then: AUSA: Is that name the person we'll call Jane? Alessi: Yes. I met Virginia Roberts too.
AUSA: When you met Jane how old was she? Juan Alessi: Appeared 14 or 15. She was beautiful, beautiful eyes, long brunette hair, very pleasant. Three times she was there with her mother. Then, without her mother. Many times.
AUSA: How would Jane get to the house? Juan Alessi: I would pick her up, and the direction of Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell. AUSA: When did you meet Ms Virginia Roberts? Alessi: I was at Mar-A-Lago with Ms. Maxwell. I waited in the car like the driver
Alessi: It was a hot day. Ms. Maxwell said, Stop, John, Stop. I did and Ms Maxwell went up to this girl. AUSA: Where was this girl? Alessi: She was coming down the ramp. AUSA: How did she look? Alessi: Young.
Alessi: Then by 5 pm I saw her [Virginia Roberts] back at the house. AUSA: Show Exhibits 113 and 114 only to the witness and parties... How old did you think Ms Roberts was? Alessi: 14 or 15. AUSA: Did Ms. Maxwell ever instruct you to pick up Ms. Roberts? A: Yes.
AUSA: Did you ever see Ms. Roberts at Mr. Epstein's home with luggage? Alessi: Yes. I drove them to the plane. AUSA: How many massages would Mr. Epstein get a day? Alessi: Before I left, thee a day. I called whoever they told me to call.
AUSA: Did the phone books we discussed have names for massage in them? Alessi: Yes. AUSA: Did you see Jane's name in it? Alessi: Yes. The books were updated twice a year. AUSA: What did you do with them, when new ones were made? Alessi: Just throw them away.
AUSA: I have a physical exhibit, GX 52. May I approach the witness? Do you recognize it? AUSA: What is it? Alessi: It is the directory. AUSA: Did you review it last night? Alessi: I did. AUSA: Every page? Alessi: Yes. AUSA: How many names? Alessi: Many. Many. Many.
AUSA: Is this the same you saw when you were that or a later version? Alessi: A later version. AUSA: Pull up Exhibit 52a. It is a sealed exhibit. Judge Nathan: Let's take a break.
Wait, still no podcast - with jury out, lawyers' arguments continue. Assistant US Attorney says "We are not offering the full exhibit 52 [the black book]. [Why not?] Now break is taken - All rise!
time to podcast...
side note
It's "Inner City Press SDNY & UN Podcast"
and https://open.spotify.com/show/52ay0km79ZyCS0hcyOYjMQ… and https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inner-city-press-sdny-un-podcast/id1493215048?uo=4
I meant to include that link too, just ran out of time before Alessi will continue on the stand. I like the Google podcast platform - but esp like podbay, you can usually download 'em, which some platforms seem to resist.Need a better mic : ) Onward!
Replying to @innercitypress
Listening now via Google podcasts app. Thank you!
Now Alessi back. AUSA: How often was the directory updated? Alessi: Twice a year. And the names of new employees were added, and those who left were taken out.
AUSA: Is Sarah Kellen in this version? Objection - leading. Judge Nathan: I'll overrule that. [Long sidebar, after which Maxwell's lawyer does the questioning] Maxwell's lawyer: As you sit here today, 19 years later, you have no idea where Exhibit 52 has been?
Maxwell's lawyer: You said the book was two inches thick. But Exhibit 52 is a quarter inch thick, correct? Alessi: Yes. Maxwell's lawyer: The book you were talking about was from New York, right? Alessi: Yes.
Maxwell's lawyer: And the PostIt(TM) notes weren't there, right? Alessi: Right. But it continues: AUSA: Did you take messages for Mr. Epstein? How? Alessi: If he didn't want to talk the call. Or wasn't there.
Maxwell's lawyer: There are a number of pages without dates next to the names. Do you know that? Alessi: I guess so.
Judge Nathan: Exhibits admitted. AUSA: They are sealed - not to be put on screens, binders only. More more questions: AUSA: What supplies did you buy for the massages? Alessi: No oils, I was - Maxwell's lawyer: Objection!
AUSA: Did Ms Maxwell give you supplies? Alessi: Exotic oils for other countries. AUSA: Was Mr. Epstein's door open during the massages? Alessi: Never. Afterward I went in with gloves. AUSA: Why? Alessi: To clean up.
AUSA: What did you see after the massages? Towels? Alessi: Yes. But not all of the massages. AUSA: Do any incidents stand out in your mind? Alessi: I found a large dildo. AUSA Comey: What did you do with it? Alessi: Wash it up.
AUSA: Where did you put the dildo? Alessi: In Ms. Maxwell's bathroom. In a basket. AUSA: How did you know where to put it? Alessi: I knew everything going on in the house. AUSA: What else was in the basket? Alessi: I saw pornographic tapes.
AUSA: How often did you see the dildo? Alessi: At least five times. AUSA: And the other one, the massager, did the ball at the end vibrate? Alessi: Yes. I would put it at the top of Mr. Epstein's dresser.
AUSA Comey: What photos were in the house? Alessi: Photos of Mr Epstein and Ms Maxwell with important people. AUSA: Like who? Alessi: Donald Trust. The Pope, I think, Fidel Castro.
AUSA: Were there photographs of naked women? Alessi: Yes. But those were kept in Ms. Maxwell's desk. AUSA: Why did you leave Mr Epstein's employ? Alessi: I was sick and tired. AUSA: Did you sign a non-disclosure agreement? Alessi: Yes. About both of them
AUSA: Were you questioned by the police after you took $6300 from Mr. Epstein? Alessi: Yes. AUSA: Were you arrested? Alessi: No. AUSA: Nothing further. Maxwell's lawyers: We'll start our cross tomorrow [it's 4:48 Good decision?] Story soon
I wish - I filed a request, two of them, with Judge Nathan. The 2d one, she put in the docket and denied it
Replying to @innercitypress
Is that here any way for us to listen to trial?
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